Gunther Schuller
with Ev Grimes
Newton, Massachusetts
July 11, 1992
September 24, 1992
Tanglewood, Lennox, MA
July 18, 1992
On his Back Porch
Newton, Massachusetts
August 24, 1992
TABLE OF CONTENTS
July 11, 1992
Side a pp. 1-10
Earliest musical experiences--early education in Germany--return to the U.S.--years at the St. Thomas Choir School (NY, NY)--thoughts on the process of learning music.
Side b pp. 10-20
Earliest composition--the composer’s creative process--interest in modern music--musical family background--experience singing choral works--exposure to the organ repertory--early years playing the flute--switching to the French horn.
Side c pp. 20-29
Touring with the Ballet Theater and Dorati--Delius--getting fired--auditions for Ormandy, Reiner and Goosens--years with the Cincinnati Symphony--Dorati--Seven Studies of Themes of Paul Klee--the Horn Concerto--years with Szell and the Metropolitan Opera.
Side d pp. 29-39
Playing in the Metropolitan Opera Orchestra under George Szell--playing the Mozart operas under Fritz Busch--other interests outside of music--gift for art--love of movies--earliest compositions--influence of other composers--Scriabin.
Side e pp. 39-50
Interest in geography--composing amidst chaotic surroundings--performance of an early string quartet movement--early music theory studies--Artur Rodzinski’s interest in his “Adagio” for orchestra--transcribing Duke Ellington’s music--transcribing Alban Berg’s Violin Concerto--various compositions written at the age of 18--the Horn Concerto premiere performance with Goossens and the Cincinnati Symphony--composing while earning a living playing in the Metropolitan Opera Orchestra.
Side f pp. 50-58
Having to give up his horn career--premieres by Dmitri Mitropoulos and the New York Philharmonic of Dramatic Overture and Symphony for Brass and Percussion in 1956--the radio broadcasts of the premieres--getting noticed by Copland and Barber--jazz experiences--recordings with Miles Davis--coining of the term “Third Stream music”--performance of the Symphony for Brass and Percussion by Pierre Monteux--pendulum swings between the Schoenberg and the Stravinsky schools in the ‘50’s--the ‘war’ between the Schoenberg and the Stravinsky camps.
July 18, 1992
Side g pp. 58-69
Meeting Majorie, subsequently his wife--Marjorie’s piano teacher Edward Steuermann and his great influence--Steuermann as direct link to the Schoenberg circle--summer festival at Kenyon College and further immersion in the Schoenberg school--moving to New York with Marjorie--having a family--life in Cincinnati--teaching the French horn--early compositions.
Side h pp. 69-81
Early compositions--study of musical form--auditioning for and winning the job in the Metropolitan Opera Orchestra--prior operatic experience on tour and with the New York City Opera--early interest in jazz--special admiration for Duke Ellington--first attempts at playing jazz in Cincinnati--going to Cleveland to hear and hang out with the Ellington band--seeing Duke Ellington at work composing.
Side i pp. 81-90
Appreciation of the difficulties of black life in the face of racism--direct experience of violent racist behavior in Cincinnati--hearing jazz in the black clubs in Cincinnati and meeting the musicians--playing for Ellington and being asked to join the band, maybe--early uses of the French horn in jazz--discovering bebop--attempts at playing jazz horn with Jim Buffington.
Side j pp. 90-100
Playing on Broadway in the summers--meeting and becoming friendly with John Lewis--becoming more heavily involved in the jazz scene as horn player, conductor and composer through association with John Lewis--writing about jazz--hosting a jazz radio program on WBAI with Nat Hentoff--doing radio series on contemporary music--receiving Brandeis University Creative Arts Award and organizing a festival of Third Stream music.
Side k pp. 100-110
First Third Stream recording--philosophy behind the Third Stream concept--some personal philosophies--association with John Lewis--the Miles Davis Birth of the Cool sessions--freelance playing in jazz, popular and classical music--the vicissitudes of the jazz life--the artistic integrity and personal sincerity of the jazz scene--Miles Davis’ change of character in the early ‘60s--pride in his sons as uncompromising jazz players--the pressures of commerce on music and musicians--ease of moving between the jazz and classical worlds.
Side l pp. 110-123
The Met--the cynicism and lack of commitment of many orchestra players--the thrill of discovering the operatic repertoire under the great conductors--the tyranny of Reiner, Szell, et. al--the orchestral backlash against the tyrannical conductors--Harold Gomberg (NY Phil oboist) vs Szell--Mitropoulos’ support and the success of the Symphony for Brass--physical collapse due to overwork.
Side m pp. 123-133
Decision to leave the Met Orchestra and freelance--Erich Leinsdorf’s resistance to leaving--decision to give up horn playing--beginning to conduct--the move into teaching--teaching at Yale--time in Berlin on DAAD/Ford Foundation fellowship.
August 24, 1992
Side n pp. 133-142
Compositional influences--the twelve-tone system: reasons for adopting it and why it is not a compositional straitjacket--defining of personal style as synthesis of twelve-tone methods and tonal rootings--Seven Studies on Themes of Paul Klee--Spectra and why it is the most successful work musically--Symphony--consistency of style throughout oeuvre--writing the jazz histories and leaving the New England Conservatory--writing a large series of concerti--finding the “perfect” row, on which all subsequent work has been based, in the Violin Concerto, 1976.
Side o pp. 142-151
Why this one row works--audience confusion in the face of, and unwillingness to like twelve-tone music--facility of composing with this one row and how it parallels common practice tonality--ignorance of formal musical scholarship--Alban Berg as role model--opera The Visitation--Rolf Liebermann’s commission--the Ford Foundation DAAD Fellowship.
Side p pp. 151-162
Finding a subject: problems procuring Dürrenmatt’s The Visit and Ellison’s Invisible Man--own adaptation of Kafka’s The Trial to contemporary USA revolving around race issues--overwhelming success of premiere--the director Rennert and his conceptual differences on the piece--Liebermann’s company’s New York performances at the Met in 1967--presumed sabotage of performances of The Visitation--speculation on reasons for sabotage.
Side q pp. 162-174
The controversial nature of the opera’s subject--a more successful production in San Francisco--reasons for the opera’s failing to enter the repertoire--becoming President of the New England Conservatory--early financial problems--renewing the faculty--starting a jazz department--the Ford Foundation’s bailing out of the Conservatory--reasons for the financial problems of the Conservatory.
Side r pp. 174-184
Further musings on the desperate financial state of the NEC--improvements to the school during tenure as President, especially greater unity--how the lack of a formal education or administrative background was an asset in restructuring the school--appointment by Leinsdorf to Tanglewood--the history of Tanglewood and what Koussevitzky’s vision was--Paul Fromm and the Fromm Foundation’s support for contemporary music at Tanglewood.
Side s pp. 184-195
The change of programming to a more modernist emphasis in the wake of Copland’s departure from Tanglewood--Leinsdorf’s compacting of the contemporary music concerts into a single festival within Tanglewood and its great success--expansion of duties at Tanglewood to assuming the role of artistic director--arrival of Seiji Ozawa at Tanglewood--clashes with Ozawa over direction of the festival, especially Ozawa’s commercialization of it--decision to leave Tanglewood--starting a new festival and school in Sandpoint, Idaho.
Side t pp. 195-204
Interest in ragtime--Scott Joplin’s Treemonisha--performance of Treemonisha in orchestration by T.J. Anderson and its shortcomings--the American music festival at the NEC--Vera Lawrence and her ragtime and other scholarship--Lawrence and the Joplin Trust’s injunction against the Anderson orchestration of Treemonisha--Lawrence’s discovery of the Red Back Book of Rags--re-arranging and editing the Red Back Book.
Side u pp. 204-213
Performance of rags in American music festival at NEC and its huge success--recording the rags for Angel and the success of that recording in sales and in winning a Grammy--being approached to work on the score for The Sting--Marvin Hamlisch adapts Red Back Book of Rags for The Sting soundtrack which becomes a great popular success--George Roy Hill’s reasons for choosing Joplin for The Sting soundtrack--Hamlisch’s reluctance to give credit to anyone other than himself for the success of the soundtrack--Doc Severinson’s setting up of Hamlisch’s exposure on the “Tonight Show”--large royalty incomes from the whole project.
Side v pp. 213-223
Using the royalty payments from the Joplin projects to set up the two publishing companies and record company--acquisition of Alec Wilder’s catalog--the financial problems of keeping the publishing and recording companies afloat--European condescension toward American art music--the perceived youth, barbarism and immaturity of American culture--the great flowering of American culture in the twentieth century--European admiration of American iconoclast and popular composers and the corresponding unwillingness to acknowledge mainstream art music--serving on the MacArthur Foundation committee--educating other panelists about music, and, in turn, being educated by them about their fields--MacArthur Foundation’s willingness to take on fields ignored by other foundations.
Side w pp. 223-223
Receiving a MacArthur Genius Grant--the MacArthur Foundation’s turning away from more idealistic projects and the diminishing funding resources for music.
