We appear to be agreed on the issue that started this exchange. The original statement from Stevan that Joe took exception to - 'The argument that self-archiving will lead to journal cancellations and collapse, in contrast, is not based on objective fact but on *hypothesis*.' - is correct. There is no evidence. For the rest, I think that the last two paragraphs of the quote from Raym Crow says it very well: "In any event, the systemic inertia inherent in the traditional scholarly publishing paradigm suggests that one need not fear the precipitous collapse of commercial academic publishers. The best of them will adapt and survive under new models and will continue to perform a valuable albeit changed role in scholarly communications." Publishers respond to changes in technology and changes in the market. In the last ten years we have seen a massive change in the technology - the internet - and we are currently seeing a massive change in the market - the funding bodies deciding that they wish to have wider dissemination of the research they fund. Publishers will adapt and survive - no doubt aided by far-sighted consultants! David